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Another way to process this that might help with evaluating the horses of other people:

If - a horse is ***
and - they are not a clone
then - that horse must have been a cap-quality horse to start with and be single 5% boosted.

A cap quality ** horse double boosted will generate the best breeding horse in the game? (And we’ll just have many best horses?)

Correct.

Does that mean every horse over 14 has been either maxed, conned, or boosted?

Every horse with a PT over 14 is either a clone that happened to swing up on the random showing ability factor, or is the foal from parents with over-cap breeding ability. Cap-quality horses can produce a max of 14. Horses double boosted over cap can produce up to 15.


Both example horses you posted have two *** parents.

And then if we have two 15pt ** could they then only make 14pts?

I think I’m missing something basic— apologies.

I think what you are missing is that PT is not inheritable. It does not matter if a horse has a PT of 15 or 13. If they are cap breeding quality the max they can produce is always 14. No higher. A 15 PT unboosted is better at showing than the 13 PT cap horse but is not one smidge better at breeding.

What’s the highest PT across all servers? I assume bluegrass has something ridiculous. Is there a cap? I think you said soft cap— so like there isn’t a cap like a programmer imposed cap, but like a cap that 3 six sided dice can at most roll 18?

Words are hard today.

Thank you. You did a wonderful job explaining this.

Ok, so... What benefits, if any, are there to boosting a clone of a *** horse? I'm considering boosting this girl: https://mesa.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=2926259
Clone of:
Double Power X
She doesn't have a higher PT than the original. If I boost the clone, what EXACTLY am I doing? Lol

If I understand correctly, there is no need to max the below horse, right? It’s cap quality so maxing would do nothing to breeding ability and it isn’t from boosted parents so the 14 PT is the max?


AE4 8n Drawn Despite

Also the leaderboard isn’t updating again. ;)

I did some testing and have confirmed that you can get a 14 PT without both parents being cap quality. They obviously have to be very close but because of rounding, you can actually be a point or two short and still hit that 14 pt. So producing a 14 PT foal (sans any boosting or using boosted pairings) tells you your horse is at or very nearly at cap but can not be used as proof that a horse is cap quality.

I tagged you in a post with discussion about PT and Cap points that Ammit and @SummerMonarch were having. May help some. :)

I’d add that any horse that comes from a *** parent and passes sba is cap.

We are guessing we are at cap in era 4 because pt doesn’t show cap. Abhean nicely told us we are at cap but there would be no way to know that for sure sure with the testing we have.

I think.

BlueRiverRanch, this might be helpful to you to describe how I have been approaching cap quality vs. not in my barn.

If the foal as a ***star/***gold parent and passes SBA it has to be cap quality. They are 100% known for sure cap quality babies. In my barn I have CAP horses with PT ranges of 13.7-14.3, so that illustrates that you can't rely on PT to tell you cap or not.

Once you have a known cap quality horse, you now have something you can use for comparison testing to tell if other horses in the barn are as good as cap quality. Because "as good as" does not have a finite definition, the as good as compared horses might be cap quality as well, or they might be close to cap quality but slightly under cap quality. So I'm considering those horses "close to cap quality."

I'll post some horses from my barn and what I did with each to evaluate cap quality vs. not:

This mare has a ***Star sire, and has passed SBA. She is for sure CAP quality.
https://mesa.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=2776808

I did eggs and embryos from this mare last season and have two foals from those embryos:

This one has a ***Star sire (***star x CAP **gold cross).
I first comparison tested the foal to her mother. She comparison tested as good as. Because she comparison tested well, and came from a ***star x cap **gold cross I figured she was most likely CAP quality. I took a chance and SBA tested her and she passed. So she was confirmed as CAP quality.
https://mesa.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=2885719

The second foal has a **star sire, I do not know if the sire is cap quality or not. (**star x CAP **gold cross).
I first comparison tested the foal to her mother. She comparison tested as good as. However, because she does not have a ***star parent, I cannot SBA test her to confirm cap quality or not. I did SBA test her anyways, and she passed, which basically just confirms she is close enough to both of her parents to be as good as both parents and pass the testing. I label her on my spreadsheets as "as good as cap"
https://mesa.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=2885735

An unrelated foal from last season was from a CAP **Star x *gold cross.
This foal papered as **gold, and passed breeding advice. I then comparison tested her to my cap quality mare and she comparison tested WORSE than the cap quality mare. Confirming she is for sure not cap quality or close to cap quality. I did not SBA test her, as she would certainly fail when compared to her cap quality sire.
https://mesa.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=2885707

Thank you so much you all this was really helpful!! Much appreciated :)

A * could make a cap-quality horse if bred to a ***. * level horses can't produce a cap-quality horse on their own.

Era 5 is already producing ** quality foals and is extremely close to cap. I don't know how many seasons until cap but it will be soon.

RAM is there as well, and will hit cap the same time as everyone else I think.

The top end babies hitting the ground in Era 5 right now are **star **gold 6th gens (maxed all the way since foundation level). They comparison test worse than my cap level Era 0s.

I would have to go look at Aheans Era 4s to remember which gen we can hit cap for sure, but I am thinking it was gen 7. So I'm expecting that when these babies age up, they should be producing cap level offspring. That would mean June for cap babies.

Khisanth, Abhean and myself are all neck and neck in there. I think Khisanth and Abhean do have a little edge on my line in that they have been using clones. Walywoohoo is close as well, but I think will be a season or two behind us to get to cap. If someone was smart and took advantage of my era 5 eggs and straws this season they could be right in there too.

I have realized that going gangbusters on GMTing my foundation stallions back when Era 5 started means the line is now VERY expensive to clone for boosting. But I have really enjoyed the look the line is producing so I don't know that I would go back and change it. I'm on the fence about getting into the boosting game at this point anyways.

Looking at the numbers on era 4 I am pretty sure we will not see era 5 hit cap next month but it should happen in June. Exactly one year after the era started which I think is really cool and a nice number.

That’s a really complex way of asking “is AGA to a *** good enough for a pt over 14 or is there a hard line that requires boosting to get over 14?”

This dude tests AGA to a *** stallion.


Summers Wicked Spree

Summers Wicked Spree was not cap quality when he was boosted which is why he is not ***. We know the same has to be true of Winters Ocean Storm. If you give a horse a 5% boost and they are not *** after they were not cap quality to start with.

You know Summers Power Energy is cap because of his *** sire and the fact that he is SBA passed.

"I feel like I’m missing something basic I should already know"

There is a 5% ability gap between cap quality and the start of ***. I think that is what you are missing. There is a fair amount of room between cap and when *** starts.

Will all cap horses test AGA to each other? Or will the secret breeding numbers possibly have some effect?

I understand. There is 5% between cap and the top of **— thank you.

So can the top half of **, over cap, throw above 14pt?

So can the top half of **, over cap, throw above 14pt?

Yup!

And accurate summation on the second one.

Take a closer look at dad. He is above cap just still below ***.