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I understand nothing.

Following because this is something I've wanted to know also, because I halted locking foals because they were even on both sides and parents had perfect lines papers and pt foals were sba and high pt but those horses didn't move up the leader board ?

Because, to me, I thought aptf + breeding ability + consistency = overall quality.

The reason I think that is because even on my solid max lines that test AGA to each other, your era 4s are better than mine in the leaderboards. I thought that was because you get higher pt foals and breed (perhaps because of that) using your highest PT horses. It may just be brute force by numbers.

I don’t want to know the formula. My guess was just proved wrong and I was really certain about it.

Okay, so if consistency is not a factor, does that mean that there could possibly be inconsistent horses on the leaderboards? (This was one of my question that I randomly thought of at night and just wanted to make sure). Thanks

Okay m! That’s really cool Thanks Ammit!

Is the math for SBA like the LB math, or no?

Not even vaguely. They are in no way related in what they show or even in general concepts.

I could give more info about Khisanth's stud if someone links it. :)

You have completely misunderstood. Maxing and boosting absolutely impact leaderboard placement.
(I even said as much above) I don't understand how you came to that conclusion.

If you post the stallion your question is about, I am happy to help you understand how it works better.

I think Khisanth may have checked out of the conversation but I am happy to explain for everyone else who might be interested. My goal with the leaderboard is to help players understand what a better horse looks like so they get a hint at some of the secret numbers going on. I don't want to just provide awards I want to provide information to players.

In this case, we know that the first two studs are 5% better than the third stud. It is possible for a stallion who is that much behind the others to place higher but pretty hard**. This is not the real number but imagine 50% of a stallion's production score was based on his 10 best foals, and 50% of his score was based on his own personal breeding quality. So if you have two stallions who have produced 10 identical foals in quality but one stallion has higher ability than the other stallion with the higher ability gets the win. I think it is very important that the actual better horse gets the award so that players can rely on the LB to tell them who is better.

**This can happen when the better stallion is much less optimized than the lower quality stallion, like if the better stallion has only been bred to foundation mares, only has a very small number of foals etc, and is going up against a very optimized who has a lot of foals from high-quality mares. Remember more foals means it is more likely the 10 best will be the best that stallion can possibly produce.

Let me break down the reasons why a higher AFPT does not guarantee a win.

1) The leaderboard is calculated using the raw ability of the foals. Pt is not the raw ability, it is a composite number based on several factors. PT gives you an idea of the showing value of a horse but does not tell you the raw ability. Since the lb and PT use slightly different numbers you can use PT to give you an idea of how good a horse is but it is not going to line up with the LB exactly

2)Average foal PT is highly manipulatable. There are all kinds of things you can do to mess with AFPT including selling back every foal with lower PT, choosing breeding partners that are way higher or way lower than the horse in question, maxing, cloning, and making consistency perfect will all impact that score. When LBs first came out they were based more purely on foal quality but what I found is that they gave players poor insight into the quality of their stallions.

3) Until recently the worst producer list was just going more on raw score, and players were not worsening their lines any. Some were even breeding horses with higher ability than the perfectly awful horses. They were just breeding for worse and worse inconsistency, not worse quality. Well there is a cap there, and it was already hit, so that was a dead end. Now the BB leaderboard is giving you helpful information about whose horses are worse producers so people can make real line progress.

For some leaderboards, double boosting is going to be a requirement to win and the more over the top the genetics of your horse the more costly that endeavor becomes. That's why we have era lbs to guarantee a space with limited or no possible boosting.

Thanks Ammit! I love learning this stuff.

A general FYI, if you are trying to understand something it is always ok to ask for more information about something more specific. When a question is really broad it can be very difficult for me to give anything but a very broad answer. Since I had a specific LB positioning being asked about it let me give a more in-depth answer. Not only is it ok to ask it is ok to ask more than way. :)

Because both of these are true it makes it harder for a single player to optimize for both PT wins and producer wins all the time.

*stares in era 4*

Foxbrook there is a new Era starting every six months. Each new Era has about 1.5 to 2 real life years before boosting can impact the standings. After that window expires boosted lines from newer eras will over take the mon boosted lines.


Maxing is always helpful for every club. It's not required. If you are breeding enough foals for each generation and get lucky you can get away with out it but a barn that can afford that level of foal production will probably just find maxing a single prospect cheaper. Don't forget you can clone a maxed horse and get double your value and cloning is very affordable for basic colors.

One thing I try to remind myself as well is that your show stock can often be just as valuable and competitive for getting those GMTs when awards come out. There have been a bunch of times some random show horse of mine ended up with top points for the year in their Era. So even if you're not winning a top producer award, you can still be successful just by having lots of good foals on the ground.

So , In The older era's it's almost impossible to get on the leader board with out boosting

You might have some luck if you go for Era 1, top producing stallion is a **star 13.40, and the top foal pts for this season are 13.40 and below. It also has the fewest horses registered, not including E6. Or, E3 is about the same production quality. But if you’re trying to learn how to breed for Eras, E5 would probably be the easiest to watch and experiment on. It would take some hustling to catch up, as it is entering its fifth generation, but not entirely impossible to make it on there. I see you have a foundation E5 boy in the top 25 producers on his first season with 16 living foals- that’s a pretty good start!