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In this Discussion
- AbidingPeace September 2023
- Eralith September 2023
- Foxbrookfarm September 2023
- LookingGood September 2023
- OTTB1 November 2024
- SummerMonarch September 2023
- Walywoohoo October 2024
True Breeding Silver Smoky Blue Roan
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TheBlueMoors has a thread like this, and I want to document my own breeding project like they have!
Goal: evenly bred Silver Smoky Blue Roan
Ideal genes: EE aa Cr- ZZ S+S+
White markings: RR
Other white markings accepted
Yes, I know that cream is heterozygous, it gives the prettiest result, and homozygous horses can breed with other horses for het foals.
All foals will have to be superior to their sire or dam, and have paper increase as appropriate with their generation to be kept as breeding stock. All others will be gelded/spayed, and/or sold.
Originally, I didn't know that I wanted this project, until AmberHaven300 posted a herd dispersal in a forum post, and I found this guy...
AH2 Chosen Aria
And so, I started at gen 2, with Aria as my "foundation" sire.
Because my goal is so specific, I couldn't find enough mares with all of the genes I wanted, so I bought mares that had at least one of the genes, such as...
MK 1830444 g2
Malaga 2R
Mahonia 2R
Using mares that have extra genes, as well as not enough genes, meant that I had more work later on, but they were really my only option if I wanted enough intact foals for gen 3 quickly.
-
Gen 3 yielded some amazing horses, including my studs...
O3 Smoke in the Air
and
O3 Smoky Quartz
I ended up with mares such as...
O3 2184755
O3 2028097
O3 2028098
O3 2097410
While most of them were the goal phenotype, a lot of them were heterozygous for most of the goal genes, and Smoke in the Air did not have Cream at all, but he was so superior to everyone that I gmt'd him to work for my herd.
After several test breedings, I determined that Smoky Quartz produced better foals, and he became the leading herd sire.
-
In gen 4, I focused on weeding out horses with undesired genes, and reinforcement of homozygous genes. There were several horses with agouti, and I finally have cause to be able to cull them from the breeding herd.
Gen 4 herd sire:
O4 Smoke N Chrome
My first star* foal!
He was better than his brother, so I GMT'd him to be hom for most genes.
Mares:
O4 2345481
O4 2476518
O4 2531717
O4 2531704
Eventually, I would like to cull out Dun, and add in some non-creme horses to bring back more of the het cream, but looking good! -
Oh I LOVE this project! Absolutely gorgeous :x
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I’m working on a project similar to this on forest! I love the silver Smokey blacks!
ES1 Aint No Sunshine -
He's pretty! I don't usually see them without roan.
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I like this pls continue. And wish BM would start theirs back up.
-
What is the difference between silver smoky black and silver smoky blue?
From the horses I have, I'm not quite sure what gene it is that makes black vs. blue
-
@lookinggood the roan gene.
-
@SummerMonarch I might not update it every month, but I for sure will with each generation.
Also, all of the stallions in this thread are available for straws and public breeding. I forgot to mention that earlier. -
You might be able to get the look you like with nd1 instead of cream to make it properly true breeding.
2514520Sorry not currently taking any request for egg/straw/horse sales. Everything I have for sale is already listed. -
2080484
I played around in search and found this mare who has all of my goal genes but cream, but also has nd1.
Nd1 only lightens the coat a little, and doesn't give the underline color change I am looking for. I know that my goal is a heterozygote, and I am fine with homozygotes, both dominant and recessive.
I used to breed chickens in high school, and I had some blue chickens. Blue is an incomplete dominant gene in chickens, with splash and black having a 25% possibility from a blue x blue mating. I could still breed any combination of those 3 colors to get the desired color I wanted, same concept here. -
I love my silver smoky blue roans and blacks as well
E1 4 SmoknMirrors
E0F1 Anchors Away FBS
FBF Phenotype 3 STS -
Since Smoke in the Air got Champion Era 1 Futurity stallion!!!!, I got a bunch of GMT tokens to play with.
Since I don't like the effect of pearl on this color, I decided to GMT all of my gen 4 intact horses to not have pearl. This really clarified their color. I still have to deal with the pearl genes when I breed for more gen 4 mares, since I will only have 2 of breeding age next month, and I don't really want to start breeding gen 5 until Chrome is old enough, but I have enough tokens saved up to modify any fillies that have pearl.
I have GMT'd Chrome more than I normally would on any one horse, but I couldn't pass up the opportunity to make him just like I wanted him.
I decided to leave him heterozygous roan because he will be bred to roan mares, most of which are homozygous, and I like that he has some other white genes. Plus, there isn't a significant difference between het and hom roan coloring. -
Well, I was breeding for some Era 5 gen 3 foals, not paying attention to color, when I got this!
O3 E5 2642012
Her color is Silver Smoky Blue Roan Rabicano.
E/E a/a -/Cr -/Z P/p
R/R PATN1/PATN1 -/RB
I knew there was a difference on if Sooty, Sooty+, and/or DP was used, but I had not considered the effects of no darkening added to the phenotype. Interesting. I love her dapples, though.
Compare her to:
No Sooty or +, het DP
HaylToCreamnBack
No Sooty or +, hom DP
FFF Sparks flying
Sooty only
O4 2097414
Sooty and het DP
O2 2484298
Sooty and hom DP
Thai Consolidation YV
Sooty+ only
O3 2184765
Sooty+ and het DP
O4 2531704
Lastly, Sooty+ and hom DP
2018854 E1Fut -
If any of you guys want a foal from this project, I have several for sale that didn't meet all of my criteria.
Most of them are as good as their sire or dam.
There are a couple superior colts that just didn't test better than Smoke n Chrome. There is one superior filly that I just don't want to breed because her paper level didn't increase like it has with the rest of the superior fillies I have gotten from this generation.
Base price 5,000 hbs, increased price if the foal is superior.
https://mesa.huntandjump.com/adv_search.php?runsearch=go&status2=1&jump=0&agel=3&owner=13692&56=0&57=0&58=0&59=0&60=0&61=0
I will be putting a couple older horses for sale that were put on the back burner.
https://mesa.huntandjump.com/adv_search.php?runsearch=go&status2=1&jump=0&ageg=2&owner=13692&56=0&57=0&58=0&59=0&60=0&61=0
Featuring:
O3 Smoke and Embers
This dude tested superior to sire, as good as Smoke in the Air, my futurity champion from last month.
I am not in a rush to sell him, so his price is 25,000 hbs.
Update: Smoke and Embers SOLD -
You might also notice that I made a tattoo for this project, labeled SSBR (Silver Smoky Blue Roan) Project. I screenshotted Aria's picture, then photoshopped it into a heart. It should be on most horses' thigh/next to their stifle.
-
Gen 5 update!
The Jockey Club online names book is great for naming my studs!
New herd sire: straws will be available when he's 3!
O5 Smoke and Mirrors
I GMT'd him to not have DFP1 so he would be available for public breeding, unlike my gen 4 herd sire. I don't want dun anyway, so it was useless in the first place.
I removed a copy of cream for more heterozygotes, and made him taller, just because.
Lastly, I was having trouble getting a superior colt, so I maxed him.
This was the first time (I think) that I have not had to GMT a stud for homozygous problems!
Final genotype:
E/E a/a Cr/- Z/Z S+/S+ DP/DP p/P
R/R PATN1/- O/-
My favorite fillies:
(names randomly generated)
O5 Burn Glucose
O5 Indie Robot
O5 e Emerald Grater
O5 Mass Returning -
Straws are now available for Smoky Quartz, Smoke in the Air, and Smoke N Chrome!
-
Gen 6 update!
None of the colts I breed have been close to being superior, even with the new 45 day pasture bonus that comes from AI embryos and 30+ day pasture recips, so I have been maxing my stud prospects. There is still DFP1 in about half of my fillies, but I don't want to waste a GMT for removing something that doesn't impact their color, since they don't carry dun, so I am hoping that it eventually breeds out.
Oddly enough, even though I have plenty of smoky blue roan mares, and I am using a smoky blue roan stud, I have not bred a non-cream horse in a while. Everybody comes out as either smoky blue roan or creme. That's odd, it should be about 25% blue roan, 50% smoky blue roan, and 25% creme coming from a heterozygous breeding.
I will have 2 herd sires for gen 6. I had already chosen one from last month's foal crop, and then I bred a colt this month that ended up also being amazing and I didn't have to GMT him at all. They tested as good as each other, but Smoke Signals does have a 12.9 pt, while Smokin Bullet only has 12.5 pt. They will have straws available starting when they turn 3.
Herd sires:
O6 Smoke Signals
E/E a/a -/Cr Z/Z S+/S+ DP/DP P/p
R/R PATN1/- O/- -/snow -/KP
O6 Smokin Bullet
E/E a/a Cr/- Z/Z S+/S+ DP/DP p/p
R/R PATN1/PATN1 O/-
Fillies:
O6 sup Cases Futures
O6 sup Sizes Penguin
O6 sup Gilded Blue
O6 sup Galaxy Renewal -
Straws and custom embryos available from my Gen 3, and 4 herds.
Gen 3: https://mesa.huntandjump.com/adv_search.php?runsearch=go&jump=0&agel=20&gelding=0&spayedmare=0&owner=13692&barn=32148&3=2&10=2&56=0&57=0&58=0&59=0&60=0&61=0
Gen 4: https://mesa.huntandjump.com/adv_search.php?runsearch=go&jump=0&gelding=0&spayedmare=0&owner=13692&barn=32540&1=1&10=2&18=1&56=0&57=0&58=0&59=0&60=0&61=0
Straws available from my gen 5 stud.
Straws are for sale on each stallion's page.
Custom embryos (herd sire, select a mare) are available for 5k each. -
Ok, new side project.
Now that the 45 day bonus is a thing, I want to see how quickly I can progress with it. So, I have started a new side project from the foundation level! It will have the same goals as my main project, but also (hopefully) staying in era 6.
With my main project, my "foundation" stallion was Chosen Aria, who was gen 2, so I am very excited to start with foundations.
This line will have all studs with "Silver" in the name. For now, mares do too so I can tell them apart from my other foundations.
What I am starting with:
All were bought from the foundation rescue, ExPerf Silver Black herd helper, except for 1 mare. 1 stallion, 6 mares, I might add more later, there were more available. This will be a closed herd after the first generation.
I GMT'd the stud to be hom for black, silver, DP, and roan, added sooty+, and then put a copy of appaloosa on him just for fun.
The glorious stud:
O1 Silver Apples
Isn't he beautiful!
Mares: I will not be GMT'ing any mares.
O1 Silver Commitment
O1 Silver Reviewer
O1 Silver Powell
O1 Silver Covers
O1 Silver Point
O1 Silver Shore
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Update on the F1/second generation.
Thanks to embryo pulls, I think I will only have to do one breeding season per generation, and I won't have to have as many fillies that meet the requirements!
I am not paying attention to bone weight, I really don't care about that.
I pulled 4 embryos from each mare (7 mares), so I had a lot of foals to choose from, so this was my criteria:
All foals:
Must test superior to sire and test AAG their sibling(s)
Colts must be:
A papered (only 1 was B)
Have Sooty + (it's expensive to add, so I prefer they have at least copy of it)
Consistent
Have as many genes homozygous as possible
Colts were sorted out if:
They were heterozygous for too many genes
Inconsistent
Personal preference
I ended up with 2 stallion prospects:
O2 Silver Charm
O2 3284894 3
^he is not named yet because I am waiting to see if he is better than Silver Charm once I make him perfectly consistent. I also want to remove tobiano from him.
Fillies had looser requirements, but mainly were:
Blue papered
Have Sooty +
Consistent (negotiable)
I ended up with 7 fillies, 3 of which are inconsistent, I might GMT that later, it depends on how my leaderboard horses do.
O2 3284892
O2 3287058
^she has to be my favorite filly. So pretty!
O2 3295163
O2 3295165
O2 3295168
O2 3317615
O2 3317618
Silver Apples ended up with an average foal PT of 10.47, but that includes his futurity foals. Of the guaranteed 45 day bonus foals that I bred, the foal PT averages to 10.51!
See y'all in December for the 3rd generation!
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Absolutely beautiful!
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Let me know if you want random experf silver black mares. I cleaned your stud out of straws ;)
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Nah, This was my only breeding season for this generation. Do you need more straws?
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I'm good, thanks! He will go nicely with my Butterfly project :D
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I might have to try this project with Era 8 and not start with ExPerfs...
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Update: My extra stud colt is now named O2 Silver Bells and is now for sale!
I made him perfectly consistent, and he tested AAG as Silver Charm, so I am going with Charm for gen 2. -
Taking offers on these 3 colts! All are **Star, superior to sire, and about as good as each other.
All are Silver Smoky Creme Roan Frame, but a copy of Cream (and Frame) can be removed.
O7 3336030
O7 3336031
O7 3336033